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Obamart Obamart
by Alexandra Pereira
2008-11-11 09:08:12
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Alexandra sent us a selection of work from www.designforobama.org to share with the readers of Ovi.

Designforobama.org states, "The opportunity to bring the spirit of grassroots style organizing and collaboration to poster design which, to us, meant not only forming communal bonds but sharing the fruits of our efforts equally and in such a way that anyone can enjoy and benefit from (because most of us do not own our own printing presses)".

Enjoy!


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Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 10:47:32
Oh heresy, Alexander, propaganda not art!


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 11:41:43
How fucking "Liberal"! What will the "more politically and culturally mature" (and not politically correct at all) european intelligentsia say? No artists here cared much about it, europeans or not, did they?


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 12:32:11
Explanation - "Obamart" is my own (very poor, some would say) expression to designate a very broad range of works which had their spontaneous genesis related with Obama campaign (a genesis which occurred in the U.S. and neither our animosity nor our jealousy should, of course, be inflamed due to that; in fact there are artists from Asia to South America presently involved and the values "preached in this propaganda" are universal). These works do not propose Salvation, but things like equality, multiculturalism, multiracial societies, peace - and the expression "Obamart" was not exactly used to do Obama/Democratic/American-Liberal propaganda, but to infer a genesis for this collective movement. It is not a personality cult because many symbols, figures and artworks are not related to Obama nor his party - that doesn't mean Obama can't be used as a symbol (of something else than... mere Liberalism), just as Mandela or Luther King or even Gandhi are still used as symbols (of something more universal than partisan propaganda). To reject everything that uses such symbols as "not being art" would be... stupid?
Finally, I should reassure our more shocked self-proclaimed "libertarian" readers that:
1. there's no indication that the Democratic party has paid any amount to these artists so they could produce
2. there are no informations about political or personal coercion of the artists who invented such posters (or visual artworks, theatre plays or songs, for that matter)
3. the families of most of them seem to be safe
4. most of these artists haven't been getting any economic profit for these works (until now, they have been donating the profits by making an idiosyncratic use of... yes, their free will)
5. no pavlovian dribbling has been registered among this artists, nor were any electric shocks used for their mental conditioning.


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 12:34:37
errata
"these artists"


Emanuel Paparella2008-11-11 15:02:13
"Hamlet and Socrates, though in praize and depreciation respectively, spoke of art as a mirror held up to nature. As with many disagreements in attitude, this one has a factual basis. Socrates saw mirrors as but reflecting what we can already see; so art, insofar as mirrorlike, yields idle accurate duplications of the appearances of things, and is of no cognitive benefit whatever. Hamlet, more acutely, recognized a remarkable feature of reflecting surfaces, namely that they show us what we could not otherwise perceive--our own face and form--and so art, insofar as it is mirrorlike, reveals to ourselves, and is even by Socratic criteria, of some cognitive utility after all."
--Arthur Danto (from "The Artworld")


Emanuel Paparella2008-11-11 15:21:46
Indeed, art is of cognitive utility because, like a mirror, it allows us to see our faces, who we truly are, as Shakespeare's Hamlet teaches us and Socrates does not. On the other hand, Tolstoy's question is also crucial: if everything is art, is a definition of what art is even possible. And if all artists are free do declare their definition of art under the banner of autonomy and freedom, and ignore art history and art theory (a good way to hide their ignorance and mediocrity...)and each person on earth posseses his/her own theory of art, what exactly is the role of Art Departments in our schools?


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 15:49:40
"what exactly is the role of Art Departments in our schools"
It is easier for me to start telling you what that role should not be. It shouldn't be:
1. to teach that artists are future teachers who put their artist suits on weekends
2. to teach that the teachers are always right in the trends they follow
3. to limitate your creativity to acceptable parameters
4. domesticate and narrow the students' creativity.
They should be:
1. places deeply connected with the non-academic slices of the society
2. places of questioning and artistic freedom
3. places for technical refinement
4. places where students from other departments could come to share views and opinions
5. places of mutual growth through shared experiences
6. exploration laboratories
7. places where you could exercise your critic abilities


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 17:07:30
How do you define a star and its irregular shine? Physicists can, but isn't it an unsatisfactory and partial definition? For me, inherent to the artistic freedom is the freedom to decide about which art I like and which I don't like and why (identify affinities, surprises, tricks, thoughts, feelings, colours, sensations). If it is art or not? I don't really know and I haven't seen much more than arbitrary speculation about. Does anyone know? One thing I know: the artist is no longer simply the guy who paints saint paul wonderfully or the landscape at dawn very skillfully. Something which causes me itches is the old habit of considering a certain art as "pure" (Mondrian's nº 10 would be pure) and other as "impure" (Warhol's Garland would be impure, because contamined with something else "exterior to the pure art"). More or less like Rothko used to say when criticizing Pop Art: "Art is a serious thing!". I don't agree.

For some other examples of "unbelievable distortions of the non-engaged-with-anything art's pure and unique muse":

http://www.brunijazzart.com/library/paintings/King,%20Dr.%20Martin%20Luther%20King%20Jr.,%20I%20Have%20A%20Dream,%20copy1.JPG

http://ashleycecil.com/paintings/MLK-2007-(small).jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q42/karmym/bildermarkus/gandhi2008.jpg

http://www.4to40.com/images/egreetings/Gandhi_Jayanti/Gandhiji_Painting-Gandhi_Jayanti-126_big.gif

http://www.art-for-a-change.com/blog/images/jan08/gee_vaucher_liberty.jpg

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/BRGPOD/73435~Allegory-of-Peace-Art-and-Abundance-1602-Posters.jpg


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 17:15:04
oops... "muse" is already too engaged with something - just think about the horrible connections with greek mythology! No: we just want art in the pure and aseptic reign of formal games and that's all!


Alexander Mikhaylov2008-11-11 17:19:15
To A. Pereira:
Contrary to your assumption I do not feel enraged in the slightest ... just a little bit sad, in fact.
Perhaps I am simply wasting my time writing this for anything I write falls on deaf ear. It is absolutely apparent how people whose education borders on functional illiteracy prefer to develop opinions instead.To bring it to a more personal level - I think you are the one who is fuming right now(without clear reason it seems)You are so refreshingly opinionated that it is even cute


Emanuel Paparella2008-11-11 17:19:18
Ma. Pereira, indeed, art as language, reveals whom we are. Speak that I may know Thee could be changed to "show me your conception of art (and it is there whether one admits it or not) and I will be able to tell whom you are. Tolstoy had it on target: Art communicates and much more than mere cognition...and to say that it communicates nothing (nihilism) is in itself a communication of one's conceeption of art...

I see that you have been catching up with Illich's Deschooling of Society. However, even Illich never said that what goes on in schools is useless and subvertible as many activists and cultural philistines advocate nowadays, what he did say was that sometimes less is more.


Alexander Mikhaylov2008-11-11 17:20:46
I may repeat myself once more - when art begins to serve political and ideological ends it ceases to be an art and becomes propaganda.


Alexander Mikhaylov2008-11-11 17:27:24
To Mr Paparella:
Tolstoy's question is also crucial: if everything is art, is a definition of what art is even possible.

I believe he largely reffered to modernists and futurists of his day whom he critized unmercifully. I think he had said once (to either Chekhov or Bunin - do not remember exactly who but no matter)'These days artistic career is mostly achieved by stupidity and impertinence.'


Emanuel Paparella2008-11-11 17:37:40
Somebody will have to explain to me someday why the fascination on the parts of some ideological liberals and activists contemptuous of theory and subdued reflection (those who have made liberalism a religion of sort...) there is a fascination with the shocking, the provocative, profanity and even obscenity and irreverence. Is it part of the overall ideology, to proclaim one's "freedom" from social conventions and traditions, or a mere attempt to attract some attention to oneself and one's cause? Usually it ends up being counterproductive, for after a while the what is shocking at first becomes banal and even meaningless and it certainly does not lend more credebility to one's cause no matter how good intentioned it might be.


Alexander Mikhaylov2008-11-11 17:43:54
Another quote comes to my mind:In his book 'Accursed days' russian writer Ivan Bunin once made a comment on abstract painting done by Mayakovsky (another revolutionary artist/poet)'If such a piece was exhibited somewhere on a street fair, a common folk would figure it was executed eiter by fool or madman. Now, our educated public applauds it and calls it a great example of revolutionary art.'


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 17:44:38
"people whose education borders on functional illiteracy prefer to develop opinions instead"
Seems like you could use some of those KGB men you tried impose me before to control the opinions of the masses who develop ...an opinion. I just wish you could express your own literate-thus-more-valid opinion without worn clichés and insults. I suppose people whose education doesn't border functional illiteracy avoid all -ists not to hurt susceptibilities and divide ALL art in two "trends": money making machines versus propaganda.

"You are so refreshingly opinionated that it is even cute"
How graciously patronizing.

"I may repeat myself once more - when art begins to serve political and ideological ends it ceases to be an art and becomes propaganda."
You may repeat it as many times as you want. If art expresses social concerns, the muse is not a virgin anymore? How would you suggest that we could make it aseptic?? I mean, save us from damnation and open the doors of the museums for us, please!


Alexander Mikhaylov2008-11-11 17:48:46
To Mr Paparella:
Of course, the main aim of such an 'art' is to shock. I think George Orwell nicely described it in his essay on Salvador Dali. I do not rememer exact words but it was something like 'Nowadays, contemporary artist throws a rotten animal corps at public and public throws money back at him.'


Emanuel Paparella2008-11-11 17:52:09
And yet the proposal is quite simple and it is this: what is good for the goose is good for the gander; meaning that if one accepts art as mere progaganda for Communism then logically one has to also accept it as propaganda for Nazism or any other ideology. I am afraid that art has been in that immanent materialistic positivistic box since it lost the idea (well known to a Collingwood or a Wordsworth) that art is, among other things, an intimation of immortality and transcendence.


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 17:55:10
Alexander:
Personally, I love some abstract art and I certainly love the suprematists and the cubo-futurists. Now what I am curious about is: how can someone claim art's monopoly? How can you explain that this piece of Rivera propaganda is in the Detroit Institute of Art:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1e/Rivera_detroit_industry_south.jpg
Is it art, is it not? Or is it just the "liberal tendency" to do propaganda?


Alexander Mikhaylov2008-11-11 17:59:10
To Ms Pereira:

It is only a duty of every artist to express his or her inner feelings and visions even if aforementioned feelings and visions have been inspired by social ills and such. It is quite the opposite to use the newest political trends - this attitude is opportunistic and dishonest, to say at least.

You know, you must really correct your affiliations - I believe your proper place would have been among Chinese Red Guards. Ooops! Ar etey no longer around? Jeeez! But be cool - you and the likes of you will form it in no time at all to teach us poor devils how to love freedom! I'll be looking forward to it.


Emanuel Paparella2008-11-11 17:59:28
Well, Ms. Pereira, in this very forum I have been served with "total asshole," "jerk," "fraud," "roach" etc. but I'll be damned if I intend to throw money back at such niceties of enlightened art and reason coming from intellectual bullies sure to be "enlightened" and contemptuous of those who disagree with them. I think the only thing to do within a forum dedicated to all opinions and free specch is to throw the rotten animals right back at those who throw them, or they'll get the idea that they can get away with it all the times.


Alexander Mikhaylov2008-11-11 18:03:33
To Mr Paparella:

It is rather ironic how often a talented artist, who had been engaged in creating art with strong political meaning (almost a propaganda, you might say)ends up with masterpiece that goes far beyond any such criterias. I think Riviera is an excellent example of that phenomena


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 18:06:21
Mr. P.:
Accepting is different from enjoying/liking (do I have to be so all-inclusive that I enjoy Mein Kampf and Leni's films? where are we? talk about radicalism...)

Alexander:
Nice to know that for you Dali didn't throw anything more than a rotten animal corps (!!!) Why don't we take his works out of the museums too? Frankly - it's not art, it's just a shock!


the functional illiterate2008-11-11 18:11:02
Riviera is the French Riviera (also a masterpiece to some extent), Rivera is the painter.


Alexander Mikhaylov2008-11-11 18:13:39
Art is not shocking - stupidity is.
And talking about throwing artworks from museums - why it seems like such revolutionary step would be more up to your alley.I wonder why such ideas keep occuring to you all the time, as to 'Mein Kampf' that you also insist to mention so obsessively at every turn - I may only repeat myself - it is clearly Pavlovian reaction again - how sad


Alexander Mikhaylov2008-11-11 18:16:43
To Ms Pereira;

How symptomatic of you again, dear! If I were to count every misspell that you have allowed to make yourself so far, by now I would be writng dictionary. How poisonously sarcastic!


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 18:28:29
"Art is not shocking - stupidity is."
They can both be.

My alley? Oh, the liberal alley according to you - which, we have seen before, can include SO many fascinatingly different (even contradictory) things!!
Honestly, I see more clearly such step coming from people who radically try to "clean" the art from all social interferences and present as pure only a certain kind of art.
I mentioned the holy book just to ask once again: why is it untouchable? (in terms of the opinion one may have about it)
Your bipolar oscillation between "cute" and "sad" is very... well, undefinable? A bit like art sometimes, uh?


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 18:32:14
"If I were to count every misspell that you have allowed to make yourself so far, by now I would be writng dictionary."
One more proof that I haven't been using thesaurus today (disappointing, uh?). But then again, I didn't call any dear latina perra a "functional illiterate".


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 18:39:08
Now we got to know that in spite of propagandistic, Rivera is art after all (I don't understand your criteria!). How about the "Incision with the Dada kitchen knife through Germany's last Weimar beer-belly cultural epoch"? Propaganda or art? Open discussion.


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 18:48:50
And the famous Marilyn? Warhol's Hollywood propaganda OR art? (always mutually exclusive, of course... Campbell's soup for manichaeist viewpoints). I'll better stop here, I know you don't discuss these things with dear illiterates, just PhD's. Please write, I always enjoy your articles.


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 19:06:08
"It is only a duty of every artist to express his or her inner feelings and visions even if aforementioned feelings and visions have been inspired by social ills and such. It is quite the opposite to use the newest political trends - this attitude is opportunistic and dishonest, to say at least."
Who mentioned the Red Guards? :) ahah
And who do you think you are to determine "the duty of every artist"? A Ming emperor?
Come on, far from me, to determine your duty when you're writing (I wouldn't want anyone doing it to me either).


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 19:13:47
Have you thought, dear emperor, that your attitude is ridiculous: "They're opportunistic and dishonest, buaaahhh it should have started in Europe so that I could be originally opportunistic and dishonest instead!! Not fair!! The artists expressing an opinion which is not their exclusive opinion, but shared with non-artists? Not fair. Not art."


Emanuel Paparella2008-11-11 20:00:26
To go back to the language of vituperation ideologically diriven, I still think that Mary Smith, who has been duly villified, was an alias, a sort of straw lady set up by someone having difficulty wrapping her/his mind around the fact that the American people as a whole have shown a surprising amount of intelligence in this election. It contradicts one of their dear paradigms of reality.

Why do I suspect it? Because the language is quite similar to that used by knee-jerk ideologically driven liberals: it is the language of vituperation and villification; in short the language of stupidity; that too has two sides.


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 20:32:24
According to the most recent samples, she sounded more like an Ann-Alexander-Mikhaylov-Smith than anything else... with some expression habits similar to Sand's ones at times (not saying this in a bad sense). I guess we will never know who was the beast.


Emanuel Paparella2008-11-11 20:41:28
I guess not but I will not be as rash as to name names and distortiorns of names which seems to be another activists' phenomenon, except to say that such foul-mouthed language used by Mr. S. and his birds of a feather (you certainly have not disapproved of it so far and in fact you seem to approve of it) remains to my mind the language of boorishness, villany and stupidity. As I said, it does little to help the cause of liberalism; in fact it sullies it.


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 20:56:18
I don't have liberalism as a cause. I'm not the language Inquisitor, nor a judge between you two - I try to give my opinion when I find it appropriate.

"I will not be as rash as to name names and distortiorns of names which seems to be another activists' phenomenon"
I didn't "name names", I underlined similarities (and you did that first). Anyone could try to have fun by transvesting. It's not very brave, though.


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 21:00:46
We could try to ask, nevertheless:

- Sand, were you Ann Smith?

- Mikhaylov, were you Ann Smith?

- Ann Smith, were you Ann Smith?

- Someone else, were you Ann Smith? Oh, well... My dinner waits.


Emanuel Paparella2008-11-11 21:14:46
We could also ask the FBI or the CIA for some help. Surely they could figure something out by looking at the exact times when the messages were posted and factor in the seven hour difference between Finland and the USA. As I said, the language of vituperation is familiar and so is the tendency to make up and distort names. All part of the liberal agenda or part of a conspiracy of stupidity?


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 21:25:57
No conspiracy from my side. If you have those FBI and CIA connections and they have nothing better to do right now, those could be useful. The only thing that I can tell you is that Ann Smith posted quite late (it was pretty late in my Iberia - 2/3 a.m. - and even later in Finland, I suppose 4-5 a.m. in Helsinki). So if from Finland, she/he would be someone suffering from insomnia (and still awake at 4-5-6 a.m.). That's my single clue. In the US it was earlier, of course (9-10 p.m. in NY).


Alexander Mikhaylov2008-11-11 22:50:52
I can see that since I had written the last post your indignation has truly reached Wagnerian proportions (not to mention paranoid speculations regarding my ‘true’ identity.) As for the latter, you can always click on OVI team button to scrutinize my deprived features (unless you would come to conclusion that the photo is fake too). And for the name – alas! I always use mine own – Alexander Mikhaylov.

And the famous Marilyn? Warhol's Hollywood propaganda OR art? (always mutually exclusive, of course... Campbell's soup for manichaeist viewpoints). I'll better stop here, I know you don't discuss these things with dear illiterates, just PhD's. Please write, I always enjoy your articles.

I have never said it is mutually exclusive and to answer your question – yes, I consider it art (perhaps in its extreme form but art never the less).

According to the most recent samples, she sounded more like an Ann-Alexander-Mikhaylov-Smith than anything else... with some expression habits similar to Sand's ones at times (not saying this in a bad sense). I guess we will never know who was the beast.

Hah! This is getting even more hilarious! Haven’t I already told you that your proper place might have been among Red Guards or KGB strongmen?
And no – I certainly do not limit my discussions to PhD’s otherwise I would have been writing academic papers instead of stories and poetry.


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 23:08:06
And you should continue because regularly I enjoy them, and I'm sure many people do, illiterates or not (I don't know if you realized that you called illiterates to some of your faithful readers, which might not be a clever marketing:)).

No one questioned your identity, sometimes I just wonder about the motivations you may have to react in a hysterical way with dissertations about liberals when someone calls racist to a racist. What would you have answered to Ann Smith?

"Art in its extreme form?"
What's the non-extreme form?


Alexander Mikhaylov2008-11-11 23:15:47
To Ms Pereira

I think I would conclude my ’dialogue’ with you at this point simply because it is pointless. You do not argue – you react. In fact, there is no trace of logic in your arguments – they are just feeling, and badly expressed ones at that, not to mention language itself (Blaaaaahhhhh, my foot! One might think that this discussion, if it may be called discussion, for it is truly prattle, takes place in high school cafeteria. Jesus! How old are you?)


Alexander Mikhaylov2008-11-11 23:49:59
I have chosen not to answer to Ann Smith at all because clearly, there was nothing I wished to discuss.
What sends me on my ‘hysterical’ (as you put it) quest against liberals is my deepest disillusionment with them all. Hell, the last eight years of US politics have been excellent prove of that. Where have they all been, besides composing their cute lectures and force-feeding innocents with bullshit talk?


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-11 23:58:15
You didn't answer most of my fundamental questions (you couldn't but answer with insults, uncontrolled emotion against the abstract crowd of "liberals", very idiosyncratic and arguable definitions of art or discrediting ...onomatopoeias, all the -ist words and thesaurus at once), nor did you explain how would you have answered to Ann Smith. I'm deeply sorry for the poor circumstances of our discussion, which does not take place in a Tressini room of the Winter Palace (oh great unhappiness!), maybe surrounded by Anna's vassals, or at the table of a snobbish cafe where posh and trendy intellectuals of the european intelligentsia smoke and chew each other's arguments with maturity and awareness of their high level of development. There we go... I'm half-child - in one minute I'll be half-savage too :)


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-12 00:09:32
"my deepest disillusionment with them all (...) Hell, the last eight years of US politics"
Oh well, I am so relieved that we in Europe have something exterior on which we can project all our disillusionment and guilt.

"force-feeding innocents"
Poor acephalous innocents, forced to eat so many things... I can see those lectures from my house!


Thanos2008-11-12 00:22:58
Let me see, politics have a lot to do with art and they both have profited from the relationship. Works like the ones from Hemingway are political with a lot of political messages, graphic design would never exist as art if it wasn’t the soviet union that brought the graphic designs in a new and higher level and saying that has nothing to do with what I think or feel about Stalin has just to do with the fact that the soviet union helped graphic design as art. Some of the best posters belong in that era.

Even the opera Carmen had political messages not to mention the ancient ones , the comedies of Aristophanes – if you have the chance to read or see Lysistrata you will find that it is an antiwar political manifest - or the dramas of Aeschylus and Sophocles. How many events or revolutions in history haven’t marked with a song or a painting. Kings, queens and statesmen have been major sponsors to art most of the time doing so not because they understood art but for their popularity and their fame after death. So it is natural that artists were inspired with the wind of change Barack Obama is bringing, after all that’s exactly the changer, the hope is inspiring artists.

I brought the example of Hemingway before, the man even gone to Spain during the civil war but he’s not the only example and avoiding the example of a lot of Russian authors including the late Solzhenitsyn – an author I personally admire – the examples are countless, the Spanish poet Lorca, the south American Neruda, the Greek Elitis and the Greek composer Theodorakis are just some names coming to my mind this moment but the list is huge and it includes all kinds of art.

Next thing is how we understand art and not how we are trained to understand art. The artists with their work want to awake feeling from their audience/reader/etc if these feelings agree with the artist’s feeling so much better. In this case the artists were inspired from Obama’s message and they want to share it with everybody, that the way they express themselves.


Thanos2008-11-12 00:32:14
And to the political comment, the last eight years in USA caused an international crisis and unfortunately all live the results of this with the financial crisis, the rising unemployment even the fact that terrorism increased during the Bush administration as a result of his administration's fatal mistakes not to mention the damage he did to institutions like the United Nations.

This story ...and what the liberals did is becoming the myth of every conservative. Who do you call liberal? Blair? He was more conservative than Bush. Most of the Social democrat parties in Europe are in a huge identity crisis and the democrats in USA suffered the same confused after the 9-11th. Let's hope now that the Obama wind will wake them up and they will get rid of all those conservatives like Royal in France and Gordon in UK and bring back the ideals of parties from the people and for the people.


Alexander Mikhaylov2008-11-12 00:57:20
I'm deeply sorry for the poor circumstances of our discussion, which does not take place in a Tressini room of the Winter Palace (oh great unhappiness!), maybe surrounded by Anna's vassals,

What is it? A nationalistic remark? Perhaps you fail to notice, while trying to excersise your wittisisms that you are going a bit too far.

Oh well, I am so relieved that we in Europe have something exterior on which we can project all our disillusionment and guilt.

Oh yes, and you should be damn glad that you live in a more secure society with, for example, lesser gap between rich and poor. Stop prattling nonsense for God's sake!


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-12 14:42:18
Soljenytsin is a good example (and the soviet graphic design too). As a literate you are Alexander, ask your fellow American citizens if Arthur Miller, Langston Hughes, Dos Passos, James Baldwin, Faulkner, Jack London, Sinclair Lewis, Dorothy Parker had no political or ideological content, the brazilians if the works by Jorge de Amado, Moraes, Machado de Assis or the poet Gullar had no political content, and if they were propaganda or art. Only who didn't read Neruda can consider his works mere propaganda. And the argentinian Borges was not an ultraist (which had nothing to do with the political context when he was in Madrid), and ultraism for its turn had nothing to do with parnassianism (which had nothing to do with the political context of 19th century France). And Lorca, who was arrested under the argument that he would be "more dangerous with the pen than others with the revolver" and executed by the nacionalists, was his poetry mere propaganda?

"What is it? A nationalistic remark?"
Not at all. I just think you would feel more comfortable surrounded by tsars and a court than high-school illiterates.

"Oh yes, and you should be damn glad that you live in a more secure society with, for example, lesser gap between rich and poor."
My dear Alexander, Europe is not one society, Europe is many societies, and Europe as a whole has a HUGE gap between rich and poor. Of course, you may not notice...


Emanuel Paparella2008-11-12 14:54:18
Fun by transvesting? Now, that is an interesting concept Ms. Pereira. Indeed, not very brave, in fact quite in character with the language of villany, vituperation and villification parading as the language of reason. But the emperor is actually naked and that is even more fun, wouldn't you say?


Emanuel Paparella2008-11-12 15:13:36
To continue the discussion on art and the artist and the viewer, Thanos, even if in the midst of a food fight in a high school cafeteria..., when I read my copy of War and Peace, the novel or the work of art is not just my copy on the shelf.
The work of art first exists in the artist's mind and then it incarnates itself, so to speak, in some medium or physical manifestation so that others too can experience it and have it present to their imaginations. So, communication turns out to be incidental and not exactly the defining feature of a work of art, since essentially artistic creations are a process of self-acknowledgment or self-knowledge, art is the mirror that allows us to see our own faces, as Shakespeare's Hamlet is able to grasp and Plato, with all his brilliance was not able to grasp when he suggests that poets and artists be banned from the polis. In any case, it seems to me that creation proper as incarnated in a work of art is to be distinguished from other forms of making things (artifacts). In today's cultural philistinism the distinction is not always made and so everything can be art, which logically means that nothing can be art. All this is of course besides the point that willy nilly all art and all humna enterprises have, by the mere fact that they are made by man, a political component of some kind.


Alexandra Pereira2008-11-12 18:02:15
So tell me Mr. P., are All my Sons and the Crucible by Miller art or artifact? Should we wait for Godot so he can tell us?


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