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Hindus urge Finland to improve the plight of its Roma people who live in apartheid like conditions Hindus urge Finland to improve the plight of its Roma people who live in apartheid like conditions
by Rajan Zed
2008-09-26 09:52:43
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Acclaimed Hindu and Indo-American statesman Rajan Zed, in a release in Nevada (USA) today, asked how Finland, which prides itself for its human rights record, was tolerating such widespread prejudice against a segment of its own society. Maltreatment of Roma was a dark stain on the face of Finland.
 

Zed, who is president of Universal Society of Hinduism, said that Roma had been living in Finland since 1500s, took part alongside other Finns in all of the wars the country participated in, and their mother tongue was Finnish. What more Roma needed to do and how many more centuries they had to reside in Finland to prove that they were "real and equal" Finns like any other, Zed asked.
 
Rajan Zed pointed out that it was 2008 and many Finland restaurants, stores, and other licensed premises still reportedly refused them entry. Replying to a telephone survey, some employers reportedly admitted that they would not want to hire a Roma even if he/she had the qualifications for a job. Prejudicial treatment occurred even though the Finnish Penal Code, through an amendment adopted in 1995 [sections 11(8) and (9)], criminalized incitement to racial hatred and racial discrimination. The Criminal Code at Article 47(3) also provided for punishment of discrimination in employment.

He said that it was moral obligation of Finland to improve the plight of its Roma population and stop human rights violations suffered by them, who numbered around 12,000 and were the most disadvantaged.
 
Roma reportedly regularly faced social exclusion, racism, substandard education, hostility, joblessness, rampant illness, inadequate housing, lower life expectancy, unrest, living on desperate margins, stereotypes, mistrust, rights violations, discrimination, marginalization, appalling living conditions, prejudice, human rights abuse, unusually high unemployment rates, etc., Rajan Zed argued.
 
He further said that it was like an undeclared apartheid. The abuse of Roma was outside even the European Union norms. Everybody openly saw the prejudice and various reports had clearly pointed out the brazen discrimination Roma faced in Finland, but the country just ignored it and appeared to lack the will to stop it.
 
Roma inclusion and integration programs needed to immediately take off the ground providing them with better health and education avenues, higher economic opportunities, sources of empowerment and participation, etc., Zed pointed out.
 
Zed further said that Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland, which represented about 80 percent of the Finns, should also come out in support of the cause of this distinct ethnic and cultural group of Roma, because religion taught us to help the helpless.

  
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Hank W.2008-09-26 11:21:45
You probably can't even find Finland on the map, so once you have come here and lived here and know the facts then make stupid asinine postings like this.


Emanuel Paparella2008-09-26 12:07:46
Your acerbic and angry reaction with your gratuitous and unrefuted assumptions and insinuations redolent of xenophobia, Mr. Hank W. only confirms that the posting may be true indeed. Your should join your fellow bird of a feather in this forum, Mr. S., who thinks that insults and argumenti ad hominem are the equivalent of philosophical arguments aiming at the truth. Pity.


Ovi Team2008-09-26 12:13:52
It isn't the policy of Ovi to delete comments, but your comment Hank has really pushed us close to doing so.

Please refrain from testing our censoring limits by placing comments that don't descend into 'that' - we know you can behave, so do so.


Hank W.2008-09-26 17:06:39
How about people who don't know anything about the country rather find out the facts before they make their hypocritical fingerwaving. he can write about the caste system in India or gun worship in America but leave writing about Finland to people who know something better.

The censoring limit should be where you publish this kind of arrogant hypocritical Finland-hating articles based on some imagination not based on any kinds of facts.



Alan2008-09-26 19:35:49
H. afraid of criticism? Arrogant hypocritical Finland-hating articles? Is this xenophobia? What's next, foreigners go home?


AP2008-09-27 03:41:44
Hank W.:

"You probably can't even find Finland on the map"
That's a defining characteristic of Romas and Hindus, right? Either that or pissing you off with this cookie green monster called reality. Man, you should like Hindus, they appreciate swastikas just about as much as you do (only the design is slightly different)!! It doesn't move you at all??!

"he can write about the caste system in India or gun worship in America but leave writing about Finland to people who know something better"
Yes, let the Hindu talk about his tribe in the places where they belong (he's entitled to that), just don't allow him to come and say any asinine truths about us (he's not entitled to that)!! Writing about Finland should be a task entrusted only to those people who know how wonderful this country is, and fully appreciate it! If they use a badge of the White Rose of Finland, enjoy rallies and rise their flag on the mast every day, even better! Those are fabulous signs of trustworthiness among nation-loving individuals who can only be constructively appealing in their writings!

"How about people who don't know anything about the country rather find out the facts before they make their hypocritical fingerwaving"
How about if I tell you that we're almost celebrating the "Ask a Stupid Question" Day? You'll be happy that you're just slightly ahead of our time?

Alan:
"What's next, foreigners go home?"
Well he already expressed something like that quite clearly before, in other comments. And so on the seventh day God realised that he had a painful scratching on his lower lower back - that's how xenophobic extreme right was born. A real pain in the ass. I don't know how Hank W. was born, but I suppose that the same way as Hindus??!


Hank W.2008-09-27 09:27:01
Yes
a) has the Hindu ever been to Finland?
b) does the Hindu know anything about Finland?
c) has the Hindu ever met a Finnish Roma?
d) does the Hindu base his article on anything else than a third-party heresay article he found in the HS international Edition.

Now if the Hindu had actually been to Finland and would know what he writes about and based the article on some kind of facts then that would be a basis to write an article. But he was "at home" in Nevada.

I can write as much a racist and xenophobic article on the misogynistic abuse of women Hindus abuse of women in Nevada based on an article of the Cherry Patch Ranch.

You on the other hand are a bunch of Finland-hating racists.


Hank W.2008-09-27 09:32:25
Alan - Intelligent people criticize - stupid people whine. Foreigners whine. Go figure.

AP - if I'll write as a puerile and racist article about the Hindus in America do you think it'll get published?

See now only thing allowed here is Finland-hating and racism against the Finns.


Joe2008-09-27 10:52:43
Just to confirm: Every foreigner whines.

Right, it seems EVERY Finn generalises.


Hank W.2008-09-27 11:07:04
Why Hasn't the Ovi published this yet?
http://www.godhatesfags.com/written/fliers/20080923_nine-dead-finland-shooting.pdf
After all you seem to publish all kinds of other religious kooks Finland-hate rants.


Hank W.2008-09-27 11:07:50
Yes, Joe, just like Zed speaks for all Hindus and Phelps for all baptists.


Asa2008-09-27 11:22:03
Hank, do you really believe that Finland's Roma don't face discrimination?


Hank W.2008-09-27 16:21:23
Asa, do you see people living in apartheid outside European Union norms?
If Finland is such a miserable hellhole why do the Bulgarian and Romanian Roma then come here to seek asylum?

If I write as obscenely misleading and offensively stupid article about the women in Nevada will you publish it?

If there is discrimination its not for some witless Nevada Hindus' place to make any comments about a place they know nothing about.


Hank W.2008-09-27 17:09:31
And I call a person "witless" who is being so authoritative on the issue and doesn't know any of the facts. Like that we have public health care here unlike in Nevada. And that theres been integration programmes since before after jebus rode in on the dinosaurs - and most of the Roma affiliate with the Adventists. And has he not heard of the Romano Missio.


AP2008-09-27 20:59:00
"I can write as much a racist and xenophobic article on the misogynistic abuse of women Hindus"
You surely know how to insult women - in swahili though!
"If I write as obscenely misleading and offensively stupid article about the women in Nevada will you publish it"
You don't have to, it's enough how you threat the women in these comments. Can you write an article about yourself??

"some witless Nevada Hindus' place to make any comments about a place they know nothing about"
Man, you're so SURE they don't know anything about!? Irony: you're not SURE about what you're saying!!!!

"and most of the Roma affiliate with the Adventists. And has he not heard of the Romano Missio"
Man, Zed is such a MEAN man!! Buaahhhh


AP2008-09-28 00:33:50
"Roma have lived in Finland since the 1500s and perhaps precisely for that reason we feel ourselves to be very Finnish. We have taken part, alongside other Finns, in all of the wars the country participated in.(...) At the moment, at least 10,000 reside in Finland (...) The status of Roma has traditionally been very different from that of the majority. Roma were persecuted in Finland, too, from 1600 to 1800. (...) The health affairs of Roma have not received the same attention as education and culture (...) It is only during the past 10-15 years that Romani mothers have started using the services which the Finnish state provides for childcare (...) Despite existing anti-discrimination provisions, Finnish law does not meet the standards set by the EU equality directives. The transposition of the directives was seriously delayed and in February 2004 the European Comission opened infringement proceedings against Finland for failure to communicate actions for the transposition of the directives. (...) Roma in Finland are faced with discrimination in their everyday lives. (...) Often, the knowledge of the teachers about Roma is also inadequate, and this fact is a source of tension between them and the Romani children at school."


AP2008-09-28 00:50:42
"Furthermore, in Finland as elsewhere in Europe, Romani children have been placed in special education on insufficient grounds. Discrimination against Roma also manifests itself in a lack of service, or restricted access, to stores and restaurants. In employment discrimination is also present. The traditional dress of Romani women sometimes raises prejudice, which leads to a double discrimination, both on the grounds of sex and ethnic origin."
from Roma in Finland, by Janette Grönfors

"The Roma have maintained a strong commitment to their traditions and cultural values, which differ from those of the majority population. This has to some extent been a burden to them and they continue to suffer from economic and social problems, including marginalisation. Profound structural changes in Finnish society have adversely affected the ability of itinerant Roma to earn their living through traditional occupations such as horse dealing, tinkering, working in leather and other small-scale trading.
Unemployment is another major problem mainly due to the generally low level of education amongst the Roma and the widespread prejudice against them among the majority population.(...)
The living conditions of the Roma have invariably been poor. As housing was one of their biggest problems, the state authorities have, since the 1970s, tried to facilitate the acquisition of homes by Roma families through housing allocations and low-interest loans. Despite these measures their housing conditions have not improved much and Roma still face discrimination in the housing market. Moreover, modern housing patterns have accelerated the break-up of the customary extended Roma family.
In addition to general prejudice in the fields of employment and housing, the Roma also face discrimination in access to restaurants and other licensed premises. Prejudicial treatment occurs even though the Finnish Penal Code, through an amendment adopted in 1995 (sections 11(8) and (9)), criminalises incitement to racial hatred and racial discrimination"
from National Minorities of Finland, http://virtual.finland.fi

That says everything, Hank W. (and it was not a Hindu nor a foreigner saying it!!)


AP2008-09-28 00:58:02
great photos by Nigel Dickinson, of some Roma in Finland, here:

http://nigeldickinson.com/gallery/finlandroma?page=1



AP2008-09-28 01:07:46
And also here some very nice ones, by Joakim Eskildsen:

http://www.joakimeskildsen.com/default.asp?Action=Menu&Item=105


(ps - Janette Grönfors, author of one of the texts above, is nothing more nothing less than "a Finnish Romani woman who has worked for the Finnish Government in the National Board of Education, Romani Education Unit, since 1995. She is also communication coordinator for the International Roma Women Network (IRWN)"). Got it, Hank W.?


AP2008-09-28 01:28:52
And dear Hank W.:

I must confess that no one has ever, for as inflamed as the debates can be, exposed in the comments space (like you have done under the "This is Finland" article) a more charming, witty and intelligent argument to contradict my opinions than yours:
"Your tits are like a cows tits"
written in swahili (at least I've made you search on google for insults in swahili due to my previous comments, and that's already some kind of progress for a personality like yours, right?).
So well done!! Keep it up, mate!!


AP2008-09-28 01:54:48
I'm sure that's the enchanting type of charm you use in order to attract immigrant girls living in Finland and welcome them warmly - they must melt in your hands like maltesers!!! :P :P Poor Hank... :P :P


AP2008-09-28 02:03:59
ps - how do you usually say your pick up line in Romani language?? Let me guess...

"SHEBARI/BITCHENO PAWDEL" - Girl or young woman of marriageable age/To be deported :P :P


AP2008-09-28 02:08:48
It's just FAXT!! (the way things are meant bo be, fate and karma)!!


AP2008-09-28 02:09:56
It's just FAXT!! (the way things are meant to be, fate and karma)!!


AP2008-09-28 02:58:42
DOSTA!! :P Some think that they are not DILI but they are GADJIKANE DILI and there's no short nor long way around it! :P :P A DOSHMAN GRAST or a DIVANO DJOLANO are more ZUHNO and have more ZOR than TU in the arguments when exposing their TACHIBEN, TU can't but do XIN while exhibiting your BUSHALO CHEEB as if it were CHACHIMOS, KHAN MAMIORO, BOBA head, messing around with CHUCHIS, KHANTINO JOHAI. KON? MANCH: TU, LOVINA KAR. You're no MARTURO, just a MIZHAK MIDJLOLI. Go and treat your NASWALEMOS, and put your PUSHKAS down, SAP RAKLO.
SLOBUZENJA
DESROBIREJA for VADNI RATSA with no BINO of BERK
BATER!

:P :P


AP2008-09-28 03:22:37
I believe Mr. Sand would just ask for the Freudian thoughts to be refrained. Ahahah :P


Hank W.2008-09-28 06:21:16
Yoy Know, I'd never objjected anything actually written by Janette Grönfors who knows what she would write. I object shit written by Nevada Hindus.


Hank W.2008-09-28 06:26:15
You're the one wanting me to go on a date. I just use what I learned off the W sisters


AP2008-09-28 13:36:48
"You Know, I'd never objjected anything actually written by Janette Grönfors who knows what she would write. I object shit written by Nevada Hindus"
That's the stupid thing: just because they are Nevada Hindus! Well, it looks like, among other sources like EU reports, they based themselves in Grönfors' informations too!! Duhhhh!!
:P :P Besides I don't know, and I suppose YOU DON'T KNOW EITHER, if they have ever been to Finland! How about if you would REALLY evaluate things for their content and truth, not according to the one who wrote them??

"You're the one wanting me to go on a date"
You surely have the right skills/education to!!!?? :P :P

"The censoring limit should be where you publish this kind of arrogant hypocritical Finland-hating articles based on some imagination not based on any kinds of facts"
So you want Ovi to start doing CENSORSHIP about some subjects?

"You on the other hand are a bunch of Finland-hating racists"
"Why Hasn't the Ovi published this yet?
http://www.godhatesfags.com/written/fliers/20080923_nine-dead-finland-shooting.pdf
After all you seem to publish all kinds of other religious kooks Finland-hate rants."
"Intelligent people criticize - stupid people whine. Foreigners whine. Go figure"
"foreigners who do nothing else but bitch and moan and whine 24/7"
""well if it is so much better somewhere else why do the people then insist on coming here?"
"Its a free country with no exit restriction"
Well it's a free magazine with no exit restrictions either, so I don't understand why you continue to be part of Ovi's team, if it is just composed by a bunch of whining Finland-haters with no censorship criteria???!!


Hank W.2008-09-28 21:09:39
How about if you would REALLY evaluate things for their content and truth, not according to the one who wrote them??

How about people would survey the facts before writing opinionated crap? Ever heard of "minding your own business" - that is what people with no knowlege of facts should do.

If I write something its based on facts. Thats the criteria I require of others. Even Finland-hating racists.


AP2008-09-28 23:48:40
"Ever heard of "minding your own business""
Not in the media and public opinion, no.
"If I write something its based on facts"
I don't know who told you that this article isn't??!!


Hank W.2008-09-29 09:34:30
That articlet is an offensive piece of vitriolic crap written by some hypocrite who has never even set foot in Finland and doesn't know anything of the life and conditions in Finland. It is offensive and false and has no basis on facts. The person doesn't know anything about the Roma in Finland which is shown by his accusations.

Are you in Finland? Where do you see the Roma in apartheid-like conditions?


Hank W.2008-09-29 09:38:11
"Finns urge Hindus to stop tossing female babies on garbage dumps and promoting prostitution in Nevada"

Thats the article I am going to write - which is going to be based on "facts" as well.
As you said my retarded friend I am allowed to write opinionated vitriolic crap about a people I know nothing about based on 3rd party heresay. Lets see how the Hindus like the Finns writing nonsensical crap about them?


AP2008-09-29 15:07:35
"Lets see how the Hindus like the Finns writing nonsensical crap about them?"
Again, what matters is the content, not one's geographic origin, nationality or religious beliefs. But you seem to focus mainly on these last ones. There are no Finnish Hindus, Hank W.? And what does that have to do with the article itself?

"As you said my retarded friend"
No need to get even lower, your comments have proved the genius that you are.

"It is offensive and false and has no basis on facts."
Are you a Romani living in Finland?

"based on 3rd party heresay"
Are you a Romani living in Finland?


Hank W.2008-09-30 07:13:16
"Finns urge Hindus to stop trampling people to death in temples"


Hank W.2008-09-30 07:15:59
Again, what matters is the content,

Exactlu AP - the content based on FACTS and not OFFENSIVE HATE-SPEECH by people who don't know nothing about anything.

- Are you a Romani living in Finland?

Are you a stupid foreigner who doesn't know anything about Finland?


Hank W.2008-09-30 07:17:51
- And what does that have to do with the article itself?

The article is an offensive piece of garbage.


Hank W.2008-09-30 07:21:25
not one's geographic origin, nationality or religious beliefs. But you seem to focus mainly on these last ones.

The writer of an article is a fat stupid american douchebag claiming to be a spokesperson of billions of people. He started it - I am just showing the hypocrite his place. You do not insult the Finns.


AP2008-09-30 15:15:50
"a fat stupid american douchebag"
Hummm... where did I hear this stereotype before, beautiful blond green-eyed athletic Adonis white-skinned witty dear Hank W.?

"I am just showing the hypocrite his place. You do not insult the Finns"
It's not working, mate.


Frank2008-10-01 14:39:27
I find it interesting that Rajan Zed wrote the article but keeps on mentioning himself in the third person... Sounds like he made up his own facts, Rajan Zed argued...

Last time I checked, a Romani family lives in the same block as me, and I'm not living in appalling living conditions :S


AP2008-10-01 20:36:33
Very frank, Frank.
So your neighbours are representative of all Finnish Roma and you are a representative of all Non-Roma Finns?
With so many things in common, did they ever invite you for dinner at their place?


AP2008-10-01 20:42:57
Since you are such a straightforward man, did you take them a welcoming gift when they moved to your block (or otherwise - I don't know who moved first)? Do you talk and share views often in the local cafe, eating pullas with cinnamon and discussing the lastest news? Do you happen to go to the same restaurant?


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